Sorry for replying so late, I have another question regarding the oki though. It seems like people have figured out about the usual setup being 2B 5B 2AB and if sweep hits go into 5D. But if i ever get the sweep into 5D they just furious action in the middle of it. Is there a way where I could bait this from players? It seems it is mostly against characters furious actions that hit in front and behind like kanjis.
P4U Mains
Mitsuru's and Kanji's are hard to deal since it hits behind them, so:
"As far as I know, only Mitsuru's and Kanji's BD can reach behind them regardless of an auto-correct, however, you can air block it and punish them during their recovery."
About j.B Double Jump 5DD.
Against the rest, you can bait during an IAD crossup, one of 5D mixups.
Just keep in mind that IAD j.B is not airtight and might get beat.
@Betadood: Can you elaborate on "furious action in the middle of it"? The initial setup is a safe jump (unless...you don't jump) and will bait out any DP that isn't air unblockable (Yu/Akihiko only, and only on the first hit). If you're talking about them blocking the initial mixup, and the mixup that comes after that, that depends on what you're doing. If you jump again, it's again a safe jump. If you roll, unless your knockdown combo was shortened, there's a gap that Tong mentioned that Mitsuru and Kanji can DP you out of if they react to it. There are other, fancier things you can do I suppose, but I assume those have gaps that can be DP'd out of too if your opponent is aware and they are fast enough.
Yeah I usually don't jump so I guess I need to practice that more. Other than that my usual setup is 2B 5B 2AB and if that hits go into 5D. Once they are on the floor and the 5D is out I run to the opponent and try either hitting low with 2A, overhead with 214A, grabbing them, or dash through the opponent and try one of the things mentioned above. The problem is with characters like kanji or mitsuru where the furious action hits in front and behind him I cant do the oki at all or just get stunned attempting it. With characters like akihiko or yu where its just a standard DP I just back up and punish. And if its a character like yosuke or naoto where you need to be near them for the counter to work I usually avoid those as well. but it seems like kanji and mitsuru are really hard to get around. Because no matter what angle I am coming from they just seems to furious action through anything I do. I am going to try out that IAD though, I am supposed to after the sweep 5D IAD and then wait to see what they do right?
P4U Mains
How the setup is supposed to work is, after 2AB>5D you see if they tech. If they do, you can run any number of the mixups listed in the first post. If they don't tech you put them back into the mixup. RE: 1 II.) Not Tech Recover from 2AB Dashing up and either 2A, or 214A is one of the worst mixups you can do, its fairly easy to just block low and react to 214A. Alternatively just practice the things listed in the first post. If you worried about getting DP'd by Mitsuru/Kanji then learn to bait it. After 5D do a small dash then deep hitting (chest level) j.B, Kanji can actually still mash DP here because his DP has a guard point (or is it armor?) so you can't really safe jump it lol. Everyone else generally needs to block in this situation. Then jump cancel the j.B and go over them. Block. If they DP here just block it and punish it. Their are a ton of ways to bait DPs so you need to find what works best for you. If you are getting DP'd all the time you need to bait them and punish the fuck out of them and make them respect your offense. Hope this helps.Originally Posted by betadood
1) 2A, 2A, 2B, 5B, 2AB, 5D
As I mentioned in the first post, this is the standard oki setup. Everyone in the cast can wake up BD and it will beat break Izanagi. Whether the BD hits you is completely dependent on what oki setup you do. Ultimately, the oki options aren't fully proof against every wake up BD option in the game. There's going to be match up specific things you'll have to know but these are pretty much the "safest" options you have from midscreen. The rest of the options I've listed in the first post definitely have gaps in them that make them susceptible to BD mashing. It's your job to figure out the opponents tendencies and then adapt to make them respect your oki game.
1A) Dash Jump B
From midscreen, after 5D you wait a brief moment and see if the opponent techs or not then do the dash, jump B (deep). This is a safe jump setup and will let you block most BD's. It'll also let you confirm if 5D OTG's the opponent and the deep j.B will combo and let you finish the rest of the combo back into 5D oki.
Characters this doesn't work on.
Kanji - His BD has infinite guard points and acts like a counter as well. What will happen is that Kanji will guard point all of Izanagi's hits during 5D and then the lightning attack occurs. If Narukami's attack comes into contact with the lightning's active frames the guard point will kick in and Narukami will get hit by the BD regardless of how you space the attack.
Chie - After the counter is activated the kicks have a slow start up so it'll catch you just as you do the late j.B.
Kuma - Kuma's BD is a counter. So when it's activated a puff of smoke surrounds Kuma and he deflates and flies off screen only to teleport a distance behind you. The puff of smoke is unblockable so you can't safe jump it or empty jump it.
1B) Dash Empty Jump 2A
This is the safest midscreen option you have but unfortunately it's not particularly tricky. Against the entire cast you'll be able to chicken block a wake up BD and can punish them after wards (except for Kuma). If they don't do anything then they'll have to react to 2A.
Kuma - See above.
1C) Dash, Quick Escape, 5DD
This is safe only if the combo leading into 2AB is short (eg. 2A, 2A, 2B (1 hit), 2AB, 5D) and you wait until the opponent techs first then do the dash into quick escape. On some characters you can get away with the typical 2A, 2A, 2B, 5B, 2AB setup. If the opponent does a wake up BD you'll quick escape through their BD. If the opponent waits until after the quick escape to auto-correct the BD you'll be able to block the BD.
Characters this doesn't work on:
Kanji - The guards points, hit box, active frames, and slower start up of Kanji's BD means he'll hit you during the recovery frames of the quick escape.
Mitsuru - The start up of her BD is too fast that it'll catch you before you can quick escape. If you time the quick escape early you'll still get hit during the recovery of your quick escape because of the hit box of her BD.
Yosuke - The BD is a counter but the start up of the counter attack is too fast that it will hit you before you can quick escape through.
1D) Dash, Jump, Air Dash, 5DD
This is semi-safe option but the way to make it safe is tricky. Again, you wait until the opponent techs then you do the dash jump but you chicken block for a brief moment then air dash. If they wake up BD you'll be able to block it but if they don't you'll air dash over them into a cross over 5DD. Keep in mind, against certain characters they can just delay the BD after blocking Izanagi and hit you during the air dash.
Characters this doesn't work on:
Kuma - See above.
Going to start practicing these setups in training mode now. Thanks for all of the advice, keep up the good work guys.
P4U Mains
Didn't see it posted, but... what do you guys think of this?
5D Airdash/Jump j.B(1)/j.B/j.B j.BB
Self explanatory. This setup gives you a chance to mix up to 3 overheads into a blockstring of your choice.
Depending on how early your airdash or jump deep j.B, you can make it hit once, twice or thrice, and of course, landing safely afterwards to continue pressuring.
Of course, the effectiveness of this can be diminished alot if the opponent delays highblocking.
Last edited by Tong; 10-02-2012 at 03:56 AM.
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